Yesterday I noticed this tweet from writer, broadcaster and comedian, Catherine Deveny and it got me thinking about the way we raise our daughters.
I sometimes lament my own “niceness”. I like to help people, I’m (mostly) kind, too polite for my own good and don’t like to offend anyone. Is that a drawback in modern society? At times I think it could be, there is some truth to the “nice guys finish last” cliché. Others can take advantage, refuse to acknowledge your efforts and overlook you existence when you are not making a lot of noise.
However, my reaction to Deveny’s tweet was firstly horror, then sadness. I would hate to think my girls were behaving rudely or treating others badly. While I’m not sure a world which requires them to be so has anything much going for it.
I spent ten years absorbed in the bubble of babies and toddlers where I’ve got to say a lot of time was devoted to teaching manners and “good” behaviour. Did I make a mistake teaching my daughters to share, be nice to their friends, think about others feelings. Have I set them up for a life of downtrodden servitude? Should I have been telling them they were more important than everybody else, that rules are only there to be broken?
I’ve worked in a variety of offices and industries over the years. I have seen workplaces where people neglected the social niceties. There was a definite air of self-absorption. If something was not to your liking you voiced it, if you wanted a promotion, an office with a view, better pay you went for it regardless of the impact on others. These environments were not necessarily the happiest places, low on creativity, passion and teamwork.
My point is when you discard manners, niceness and kindness you can dismantle the structure which supports an effective society. You remove the glue which holds people together to create great things. If nobody trusts each other, if they are all watching their backs it’s impossible to generate the fire needed to work together and create unique solutions to problems and achieve goals which ultimately ensure the long-term success of the organisation.
What do you think, is it a mistake to raise our daughters to be nice, kind and good?
I think we need to teach our daughters, and our sons to be respectful of people, and life in general and that includes respecting themselves, treating others as they would like to be treated. Nice is more complicated because people can act nice on the surface without respecting each other. It is definitely a parents job to instill values regardless of our children’s gender.
That’s an interesting point that nice is more complicated than respectful. It is very true that people can give the appearance of being nice without truly respecting those around them.
Strong and firm but with manners and politeness. Right and wrong, kind and good does not a weak woman maketh.
I love your comment. “Kind and good does not a weak woman maketh”.
I was raised to be nice, kind and good – to everybody else. That’s the problem, I think. If I was treated badly, or my feelings were hurt I got the message it wasn’t really important, what mattered was that I didn’t upset anyone else. It took years of practice before I was able to put my own interests first and realise that I could do that and still be a nice person.
I’d suggest raising all our children, sons and daughters to be nice, kind and good to themselves as well as those around them.
That’s the issue isn’t it when you are “too nice” and let others walk over you because you don’t want to upset them, but it would be a terrible world if nobody cared or respected others.
I don’t know about this. I’m starting to learn, through my own experiences, that although it might be good to have manners, nice girls get trodden on in relationships. They let other people walk all over them and they don’t get their opinions heard. That’s how I raised my 7 yo daughter and even yesterday, on a play date, she was in tears because her friend yelled at her for not wanting to play her game. My daughter is a very nice girl but very sensitive. If I would’ve raised her to be a little more mean spirited, she could’ve walked away and said ‘play by yourself then’ instead of crying. My husband walked all over me for the last 13 years and left in January this year after 13 years of me being ‘nice’ to him and keeping the peace so I didn’t create any drama in the household. My Mum raised me to be nice but I wished I could have a bit of mean streak, just to be able to stand up for myself and not worry about what people think of me.
Anne @ Domesblissity xx
That’s the challenge isn’t raising girls to be strong without being mean or uncaring? It is very important they don’t let others walk all over them and sometimes that’s a fine line.
hi janine – this is an important topic. as a teacher, i say, “it takes a long time to raise a civilized person.” – and we want to be a well-mannered society. at the same time, i want my daughter to be treated well, and to demand it if she’s not. to “stand up and be counted”. as her mom, i have to model these skills, as well as talk to her directly about them. looking forward to reading the other comments. thanks for bringing this up!
Trying to give a good example of “standing up and being counted” is really important. I hope our society continues to raise civilised people, and I am glad there are teachers like yourself on the job helping that to happen.
As a child and current resident of the southern US, manners are important, but they aren’t everything. I find myself agreeing with all of your commenters, really. And I especially like what cobbies69 said. Kindness does not necessarily a weak woman make. What good have you done for the world by raising mean girls? You’re right, you dismantle something in society and you dismantle something in them as well.
I really enjoyed your post Janine. I write a whole series about a little girl who has impeccable manners and is good and kind to everyone she meets – even the bad guys. Perhaps that makes her naiive, but Alice-Miranda is one who sees the good in everyone, even if the behaviour is at times not so good (and sometimes downright awful). Give me a child with manners and empathy for others any day, over some of the self centred, spoiled kids I’ve met over 20 plus years of teaching. And I don’t agree that nice guys finish last. In my line of work, teaching and writing for children, people who are pushy and conceited soon gain the reputation they deserve. Kids are clever and can spot a fake at 20 paces too! I sometimes find the level of nastiness people are prepared to put out there in the world, particularly via Social Media, quite disturbing. Do we really need to be so unkind and opiniated? I was always taught that if you can’t say something nice…Granted I think it took me a long time to fully understand the value of that saying. I agree that when people spend their lives being negative, and bringing others down to boost themselves up, ultimately no one wins.
Hi Jacqueline – I copied your post – my commenting button is in the wrong place at the start of the post – so you wrote on the post after. Firstly, thank you for taking the time to vist – my blog just became a lot more serious in my youngest daughter’s eyes because the author of her favourite books just commented – you’ve awarded me serious brownie points!
Since I began blogging in October last year I’ve got to say I’ve been shocked by some of the behaviour on social media. While we are drilling our children about cyber-bullying etc adults are taking part in it every day. It seems without face-to-face contact people are losing their sense of good behaviour and feeling free to express whatever cruel thought crosses their mind.
I’m glad you are creating books which feature goodness and kindness (and that are very loved by the children who read them) and I hope our world allows those with kindness and empathy to succeed.
For anyone who would like to know more about Jacqueline’s books her website is http://jacquelineharvey.com.au/.
I like to think that my being raised nice has worked out great for me. It helps you meet people, stay in touch with people, and can give you some great opportunities.
I think you still raise kids to be nice. Then they have a chance to find other genuinely nice people and those people become their good friends. I think you also need to teach your kids about how to know when to get out of a situation that makes them unhappy. If you’re nice to somebody over and over again, and you start feeling taken advantage of – the answer isn’t to be mean, it’s to get out of that situation. That’s my opinion anyway 🙂
Random Almost Related Story: There’s this guy from Houston who’s 33 who was on a project in NYC with me. He made a comment about how he was proud of himself because he bumped into somebody on the street and didn’t even say sorry – the true NYC way. I looked at him in shock. I told him he should hold his ground and say sorry because that’s what he was raised to do. You don’t try to “blend in” with the culture. (Aside: does this make New Yorkers mean? No, I think it makes them in a hurry….)
I hope you are right and being nice will be still OK when my kids are adults – as long as they can get out of the unhappy situations like you said.
This was a nice short and sweet post posing a VERY serious question for thought. It’s a wonder I even learned manners and common courtesy when I was young since my mother and father weren’t around much trying to support the family. But when they were present they did their best. You did what you felt was right and as they get older their personalities will tell you what kind of people they may be as will their mistakes in life. What’s important is what they take away from those follys.
I don’t think you set them up in the LEAST bit for a life of “Downtrodden Servitude” but as I said, as they mature it falls to them to figure out the “Dos and Don’ts” of society and themselves. If you ask me and I’m 26 mind you, I think too many Girls and Boys of the generations AFTER me are self-absorbed, spoiled, little brats who seriously need to be put in their place and serious attitude adjustment. I have observed too many show complete blatant disregard for their fellow man and it’s truly sad that THIS is the world we live in now. They think THEY are the most important people to ever walk the Earth and yet have not appreciation for life, especially their own. Not truly. Too many parents spoiling their children, giving them what they didn’t have and THEN forgetting the most crucial thing of all, “Character Building”. Least that is one of the key elements I feel I have discerned from what is missing in the big puzzle.
That’s my thoughts and two cents. People can take it or leave it, think I’m crazy or blowing smoke outta my butt but there it is.
I raised my daughter (7yo) to be nice and kind to all – but in doing so, she is often see as weak and an easy target to other girls (who have stronger personalities and not as easygoing). So additional tools I have had to instill in her are that of knowing when to speak up and speak back, without crossing the line into rudeness and being nasty.
We are still learning on that!
I can only hope that the values we instill into her today, will stay with her as she grows, and that some of those nasty little girls in the schoolyard (and later in life) don’t destroy the seeds we have sown.